What are your thoughts on the just concluded 2014 National Conference?
I think that the conference, as I have said in other interviews, was only useful for the purpose of giving us an opportunity to sit down and talk; and that we have done.
It has also exposed the fraud inherent in the Nigerian State – that Nigeria is not a federal state, that one section of this enclave called Nigeria is opposed to Nigeria moving forward and Nigeria being a federal state. If you look at the conference, the South East, South West ,South South and parts of the Middle Belt clearly wanted a true federal state like it was when the British left.One section of the country, the Gambari-North or the Fulani and their collaborators, feel that that is not possible. I think that this is happening because our people had always condescended to these people; had always accepted to play the second, third and last fiddle to them. For me, I had always believed that for every action, there must be an equal and opposite reaction and except that happens, you will not be respected.
The other person would think that he has a monopoly of violence; he has a monopoly of rascality and he would continue to do what he is doing. The national conference has come to vindicate people like us who have been saying that there is no need for dialogue and there is no need for negotiation. The only language these people understand is their own language, which is violence and violence. Every one of us must be prepared to give it to them.
As at the time the conference closed, people were jubilant and expressed hope that the outcomes of the conference would usher in a new Nigeria. Does it mean you do not share in this optimism?
I don’t think like that because from the recommendations of the conference that I have read, it is to maintain the status quo. What is maintaining the status quo? We would continue to remain a very crude unitary state with a powerful centre that has the military, immigration, SSS and that has an omnibus NNPC and so on and so forth.
But that cannot engender genuine development in any part of this country because when one part of the country wants to develop, the other parts would be pulling that part back. Even though I said the conference was a good start, we have discussed and we have known those who are the enemies of this part of the world. This is not a cheerful outcome for a conference.
What would you have loved to see as the outcome of the conference?
It should have been a no-holds barred conference. It should have been a conference that has sovereign powers to make decisions; a conference that confers sovereign powers on the various nationalities, not states. The states are battle stands created by military fiat and I think it is abnormal; it is nonsensical for us to have delegates nominated from states. What should have happened is to pick delegates representing the various ethnic nationalities in the country.
We know ourselves, no matter how small an ethnic nationality may be, each nationality should have been given a voice. Now when that is prevented, it should be taken back to the people for vetting or ratification through a referendum by the various nationalities that make up the country.
So if Ijaw people say we don’t want to be part of Nigeria, they should be allowed to go. No be by force! This is what I expected from the conference. I do not desire to be a Nigerian, I don’t want to be a Nigerian, and I don’t want my children to be Nigerians. I want to be who I am. I am an Ijaw man. Simple.
Now 2015 is around the corner and tension is rising across the political space, particularly with the North insisting that power must return to them. What are the options to save the country from imploding?
As far as I am concerned, Nigeria can only move forward when the right things are done. You cannot be doing something the same way all the time and expect a different result. As long as you don’t change your ways and methods, you will get the same result. We can’t be fooling ourselves except if there is something wrong with us.
It is very clear that we cannot move forward. We are not the same people, we are different people and our distinct nature must be taken into consideration in whatever we are going to do or whatever we want to be.
So for me, 2015, anybody wey dig a pit is going to fall into the pit. There are no two ways about it. If anyone thinks he will put monkeys, baboons, chickens and everything on the streets and that there will be blood, let him try now! Na only him to fit catch monkey, baboon and soak them in blood? As him dey soak, we too go dey soak now! There is no problem about it. You see people like to waste their time.
If somebody tells me that Gwoza has been taken, Damboa has been taken, its okay. It is because you want it. If you don’t bend your back nobody would ride on you. I’m not ready to end my back and nobody is going to ride on me. So as he is planning to kill, I am also planning to kill him. That is it.
During the conference, the issue of threats to the unity of the country came up when the Lamido of Adamawa said that his kingdom extends as far as to Cameroon, an utterance that suggested that the North was ready to call it quits with Nigeria. What do you make of this threat?
He has no kingdom! He has no kingdom! Which kingdom is that?
It seems that the political elite in Nigeria don’t think the way you do. The elite think they have a lot at stake in Nigeria and they want the country to remain one, no matter the challenges confronting the polity.
What is responsible for this difference between you and them? It is not the political elite that will decide when the sound gets louder. It is street people like me. It is not IBB and others who built a 200 bedroom mansion on top of a hill that would decide the fate of this country. It is raw street people like us that are going to decide. IBB said that I stay in hotels; that is the falsity of information he has about me.
I don’t stay in hotels. I abhor hotels. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke. I am just a simple fellow. I go to hotels to see people but I don’t live in hotels. If he wants to see me, he can come to my little village and he will see where I live. The elites are just grandstanding. They are just talking, they don’t control anybody. As far I am concerned, they will not decide when the sound gets louder.
You just made reference to former Military President, Gen. Ibrahim Babangida. I recall that in one of his recent interviews with the media, he dared you to declare that war you have always talked about. What would be your response to this challenge?
Look, a lot of people have dared me and they have seen that for every step they dared me, I go a step further. There is time for everything. I am not going to follow his timetable. I have my own timetable. I have my road map. So when it’s time for me to do what I have to do, he cannot shout and he cannot push. I know that he will not be anywhere; he will run away. That I am very sure of.
He said that should you declare war, he will put on his uniform again and fight you if that is what it would take to halt the disintegration of Nigeria. What is your take on his threat?
He is a liar! The last time he put on his uniform…. in Bonny, we knew what happened to him. Up till now he is limping. He had to be flown out.
So this time with his bad leg, we will know. So let him not boast. But he spoke well of Isaac Adaka Boro, the Ijaw freedom fighter and he seems to have much respect for him. Are you not following in the footsteps of Adaka Boro? This s a man that talks from both sides of his mouth. Who was Adaka Boro? Adaka Boro declared the Niger Delta Republic, the 12-Day Revolution.
He was crushed because it was not like it is today where the vast majority of our people are now conscious, are vigilant and are waiting. At that time it was only a few people that knew what was happening. Isaac Adaka Boro was like a seer and was seeing far off. He was put in prison, he came out thinking that we were fighting against the Igbo, which was a very wrong assumption. It was a very wrong way to think but at that time our people were made to believe that our problem was with the Igbo and not the Nigerian State.
He came out and after fighting and thinking that if we were all together things would be okay, he was shot behind the back. He was murdered. So that was why Adaka Boro could not execute what we are doing today. Isaac Adaka Bro is the doyen of our struggle.
He is the direction of our struggle. He is the light that leads us. So he (IBB) is talking from both sides of his mouth. How can anybody take such a fellow serious? A man who wore uniform paid for through the resources of the Niger Delta and used his gun to overthrow a legitimate government; seized power ad destroyed the very moral fabric of our country?
He cancelled an election that was free and fair. These are some of the things we have been saying that Nigeria cannot exist because when people like this talk, they offend our sensibilities.
How can a man like IBB talk in the face of all his atrocities? He should have run away and we would have been looking for him. But because he is comfortable, he is going about talking. It’s a shame!
Now let’s get back to the conference and its outcome. Are you saying that all the ethnic nationalities ought to have recognised if we were a true federal state?
Don’t get me wrong. That is not what I am saying. I said there must be a Sovereign National Conference and the decision of the conference by these nationalities should be put to a plebiscite for these nationalities to vote yes or no. Referendum has taken place twice in Nigeria – the one in Southern Cameroon and the other in the former Mid-West that resulted in the creation of the Mid-West out of the old Western Region. So this is not a new thing. It can happen again.
Are you advocating for the Ethiopian model of a national conference?
Yes. The Ethiopian model. There is also the South African model and CODESA. As we speak, Scotland is going into a referendum; Canada has been having a referendum where Quebec wants to leave. So the option should be given to people here as well. Nigeria is not sacrosanct. I have no relationship whatsoever with this fellow they call IBB. I don’t have any relationship with him and I don’t want to have one.
When President Goodluck Jonathan received the report of the conference, he pledged that he would send it to the Council of State and the National Assembly. Do you have hope on this or you have a problem with this move?
Look, the usefulness of the conference like I said earlier is that it afforded us the opportunity of sitting down and talking. That is just the usefulness. Apart from that, there is nothing to it. As far as it does not have sovereign powers, what we are having are mere recommendations.
Now that it is not sovereign, some Nigerians still believe that if it is channelled properly through a referendum, we would have those results you crave for. Do you share this view?
No. I don’t think so. With the kind of recommendations in that report, the creation of various parasitic states that cannot stand on their own and other things contained in it, I don’t see anything coming out of it. Somebody is talking about local governments in a federal state. How can local councils be separate from the states? Are the local councils the federating units or are states the federating units? Are the ethnic nationalities the federating units? So this is a confused document.
You have disagreed with Gen. Babangida on many issues but there is a point he made in that interview where he advised President Jonathan not to negotiate with Boko Haram. Do you also disagree with him on this position?
Are they ready to negotiate? Are the Boko Haram people ready to negotiate? When you want to negotiate, demands would be put forward by both negotiating parties. The last time they said that for them to talk to him (Jonathan), he must become a Muslim. Is he ready to do that? Is President Jonathan who represents the Federal Government ready to do that?
No. He will not. There is no compulsion on religion. To you are your beliefs and to me are my beliefs. Nobody can force anybody at gun point or whatever to change his religion. It is not acceptable in the sight of God. So for me, there is no basis for negotiation. If the basis exists and there is an opening for genuine negotiation we will know because Boko Haram is not fighting for anything other than the seizure of political power by the Gambari – Fulani people.
Yes, they are using Kanuri territory to perpetrate the evil but the main people instigating this bloodletting are the Gambari from Futa Djallon. We know where they came from. They are colonialists and if we made the British to leave, what are these people doing here? They are also colonialists. You have to reflect and ask yourself some questions.
Kano is a Hausa city, the Emir of Kano is not a Hausa man; he is a Gambari. Ilorin is a Yoruba city, the Emir of Ilorin is a Gambari. Bida is a Nupe town, the Emir of Bida is a Gambari. Birnin Gwari is a Gbagi town, the Emir of Birnin Gwari is a Gambari.
The Lamido of Adamawa who is residing in Yola is a Gambari who claims he has other Gambaris in Cameroon and other places. These are not Fulani cities. We know where they all came from.
They all migrated from far-flung places to their present locations. So if we know where they come from and we know that they are not from here, they came to colonise these territories. What are they still doing here? If the British left, the French left, the Germans left, the Portuguese left, the Belgians left, what are these people doing here? They are also colonialists but this is what our elites are ready to accept.
Why should we allow foreigners to dominate the aborigines? When people like us talk, they say these are very sensitive issues, don’t touch them. Why should we not touch them? Why should the Sultan of Sokoto be the head of Muslims in Nigeria? Where did we meet and make the Sultan our head? So these are the things. But a lot of people don’t look beyond the surface. A man says he is born to rule; you have not asked yourself, if that man is born to rule, what about you? If the man is born to rule, you are born to be ruled.
So you become drawers of water and hewers of wood. A wise man in one of the great books I have read said: For I have seen a grave injustice on the surface of the earth that I saw servants riding on horseback and princes walking on foot. The Hausa man in Kano is walking on foot; Sanusi, a Fulani man, a Gambari from Guinea is riding on horseback.
Gambari Suleiman Gambari is riding on horseback. These are the issues that we’ve not been able to capture. Why should injustice continue? Why should the indigenous Hausa population in Kano not be given back what rightfully belongs to them? Why is it that in Ilorin, the indigenous Yoruba people, the ones they call Baba Agba, are not given back what rightfully belongs to them?
Source: New Telegraph